This article cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Thank you for writing it! I didn’t realize that the neuron age bonus goes away when you start to dissolve. I’m also looking forward to seeing information about the maturity threshold when it is released. I don’t really understand why this detail hasn’t been released.
1) What are the consequences of spawning a neuron? I know it creates a new neuron with a short dissolve delay, but does this action negatively affect your parent neuron age, voting power, or maturity?
2) When you spawn a new neuron after reaching the maturity threshold, can you stake the new ICP in the parent neuron (similar to dividend reinvestment)? This type of dividend reinvestment might be an interesting addition to your neuron calculator.
3) When you spawn a neuron, does it always create new neuron or is there a single neuron that is established by the NNS for depositing all future minted ICP from the parent neuron?
4) Have you come across any information about how ownership of the NNS account (neurons, staked ICP, voting rights, etc) would be transferred upon death of the owner? It's an important issue when considering the long term staking options.
I have a question, is it more convenient to hold the maturity of your first neuron until the end of the dissolve delay and claim the relative reward or to create new neurons everytime you can?
Any chance you could update the calculator to show a compounding effect if a user were to Spawn Neuron every time their rewards reached 1 ICP and then top up the neuron with that reward? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think your calculator is showing a compound effect on the rewards. Also, any way you could extend the max stake duration to 30 years?
Several days ago I staked ICP in a neuron with a dissolve delay of 8 years. Maturity started growing yesterday and today it almost doubled. Between yesterday and today the maturity increased by 0.0007998%. For the sake of discussion, let’s say that maturity growth rate is constant throughout the year. That would mean my maturity would be 0.291927% after 365 days, That seems like an incredibly small staking/voting reward. Does this sound right?
How can we see how many icp each neuron earns each day? Are these icp locked in the neuron as well? Presumably one would need this info for tax purposes.
Great article. You have developed a really helpful tool tool on networknervoussystem.com. I love that you can see the return over time year over year for a variety of settings.
The tool right now though assumes a reinvestment of rewards of 0%. I would love to have you add on a toggle to slide reinvestment of rewards from 0-100% back into the parent neuron. Right now, an investment of ICP seems to grow well at first, but then the growth lags from the dwindling returns formula (down from 10% of world ICP to 5% of world ICP over 8 years). With the graphical representation of compounding interest, I think the value of an extended stake would be much more obvious as a long-term benefit and help to further inspire contemplating parties to help secure the future of the internet computer.
Thanks for this comprehensive guide. Extremely helpful!
I found the result for 2-year dissolve relay doesn't seem correct though, while 1-year, 3-year, 4-year and 8-year all check out and are consistent with my own experience from staking ICP since May.
Assuming:
- 25% locked inside voting neurons
- 100% voted proposals
- 2 years avg neuron age
- 2 years avg dissolve delay
The ICP calculator would yield the following:
- 29.79% p.a. for 8 years of staking and 8 years of dissolve delay
- 23.61% p.a. for 4 years of staking and 4 years of dissolve delay
- 20.84% p.a. for 3 years of staking and 3 years of dissolve delay
- 24.96% p.a. for 2 years of staking and 2 years of dissolve delay
- 16.72% p.a. for 1 years of staking and 1 years of dissolve delay
The 24.96% for two-year stands out. Did I miss something there?
There's one thing I'm still confused about. What role does maturity play in my voting power/accruing rewards? Should I be pulling out my rewards and adding them into the neuron, or can I just leave it as maturity to for an equivalent result?
What are the mathematical formulas that maturity is involved in?
very good article. my question is: how in detail can you spawn neuron reusing a previously created neuron? otherwise you will have plenty of little (useless) neurons...
From what I understand, if I want to lock up my ICP in a neuron for a total of 4 years, I would receive higher rewards by setting the dissolve delay to 4 years and unstaking immediately vs the alternative route which would be to have a 6 month dissolve delay with a staking period of 3.5 years?
This article cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Thank you for writing it! I didn’t realize that the neuron age bonus goes away when you start to dissolve. I’m also looking forward to seeing information about the maturity threshold when it is released. I don’t really understand why this detail hasn’t been released.
Great article, looking forward to what you will write next!!
Thanks a lot for this article. Very helpful!
Three questions that you may be able to answer:
1) What are the consequences of spawning a neuron? I know it creates a new neuron with a short dissolve delay, but does this action negatively affect your parent neuron age, voting power, or maturity?
2) When you spawn a new neuron after reaching the maturity threshold, can you stake the new ICP in the parent neuron (similar to dividend reinvestment)? This type of dividend reinvestment might be an interesting addition to your neuron calculator.
3) When you spawn a neuron, does it always create new neuron or is there a single neuron that is established by the NNS for depositing all future minted ICP from the parent neuron?
4) Have you come across any information about how ownership of the NNS account (neurons, staked ICP, voting rights, etc) would be transferred upon death of the owner? It's an important issue when considering the long term staking options.
Thanks for your help! Keep up the great work.
I have a question, is it more convenient to hold the maturity of your first neuron until the end of the dissolve delay and claim the relative reward or to create new neurons everytime you can?
Any chance you could update the calculator to show a compounding effect if a user were to Spawn Neuron every time their rewards reached 1 ICP and then top up the neuron with that reward? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think your calculator is showing a compound effect on the rewards. Also, any way you could extend the max stake duration to 30 years?
Thanks for the review. Very well done.
What happens to voting power and age when refreshing neuron with new ICP from an exchange?
Several days ago I staked ICP in a neuron with a dissolve delay of 8 years. Maturity started growing yesterday and today it almost doubled. Between yesterday and today the maturity increased by 0.0007998%. For the sake of discussion, let’s say that maturity growth rate is constant throughout the year. That would mean my maturity would be 0.291927% after 365 days, That seems like an incredibly small staking/voting reward. Does this sound right?
How can we see how many icp each neuron earns each day? Are these icp locked in the neuron as well? Presumably one would need this info for tax purposes.
It would be great to understand whether the rewards are a function of the entire circulating supply or only of the non staked circulating supply
Is possible to set dissolve options to 6 months and keep staking for 10 years?
Great article. You have developed a really helpful tool tool on networknervoussystem.com. I love that you can see the return over time year over year for a variety of settings.
The tool right now though assumes a reinvestment of rewards of 0%. I would love to have you add on a toggle to slide reinvestment of rewards from 0-100% back into the parent neuron. Right now, an investment of ICP seems to grow well at first, but then the growth lags from the dwindling returns formula (down from 10% of world ICP to 5% of world ICP over 8 years). With the graphical representation of compounding interest, I think the value of an extended stake would be much more obvious as a long-term benefit and help to further inspire contemplating parties to help secure the future of the internet computer.
Thanks for this comprehensive guide. Extremely helpful!
I found the result for 2-year dissolve relay doesn't seem correct though, while 1-year, 3-year, 4-year and 8-year all check out and are consistent with my own experience from staking ICP since May.
Assuming:
- 25% locked inside voting neurons
- 100% voted proposals
- 2 years avg neuron age
- 2 years avg dissolve delay
The ICP calculator would yield the following:
- 29.79% p.a. for 8 years of staking and 8 years of dissolve delay
- 23.61% p.a. for 4 years of staking and 4 years of dissolve delay
- 20.84% p.a. for 3 years of staking and 3 years of dissolve delay
- 24.96% p.a. for 2 years of staking and 2 years of dissolve delay
- 16.72% p.a. for 1 years of staking and 1 years of dissolve delay
The 24.96% for two-year stands out. Did I miss something there?
There's one thing I'm still confused about. What role does maturity play in my voting power/accruing rewards? Should I be pulling out my rewards and adding them into the neuron, or can I just leave it as maturity to for an equivalent result?
What are the mathematical formulas that maturity is involved in?
very good article. my question is: how in detail can you spawn neuron reusing a previously created neuron? otherwise you will have plenty of little (useless) neurons...
From what I understand, if I want to lock up my ICP in a neuron for a total of 4 years, I would receive higher rewards by setting the dissolve delay to 4 years and unstaking immediately vs the alternative route which would be to have a 6 month dissolve delay with a staking period of 3.5 years?